Discussion:
Concern about application file size for publishing due to Media files
(too old to reply)
Mahesh Vaghela
2009-01-09 04:57:38 UTC
Permalink
Hi Friends,

I want to develop an application which can play sound (.mp3) files. I am
able to play this as I wish.

But I am concern about the total file size of my application due to this mp3
files. I have total 6 mp3 files and total size of them becomes more than
30mb.

This is very large when we talk for android. (For Iphone it's not a large
one!)

I have read that total allocated size for android application is just 128 or
256 MB only.

a)
Is this information right (Or we can use more than this)?

b) What is the maximum application size google market allows for publishing
an application?

b) Is there any way by which we can put our mp3 files on some other place?




Many thanks in advance.

Mahesh Vaghela

http://www.indianic.com

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AusR
2009-01-09 07:40:44 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

Are you sure the mp3s need to be of the quality and duration they are.
For the purposes of a mobile handset application, for which the audio
playback technology is not fixed they could be re-encoded with a lower
bit-rate (or shortened) without too much loss in audible quality. this
could reduce the file size significantly.

(Just a suggestion)

Aus.
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
Hi Friends,
I want to develop an application which can play sound (.mp3) files. I am
able to play this as I wish.
But I am concern about the total file size of my application due to this mp3
files. I have total 6 mp3 files and total size of them becomes more than
30mb.
This is very large when we talk for android. (For Iphone it's not a large
one!)
I have read that total allocated size for android application is just 128 or
256 MB only.
a)
Is this information right (Or we can use more than this)?
b) What is the maximum application size google market allows for publishing
an application?
b) Is there any way by which we can put our mp3 files on some other place?
Many thanks in advance.
Mahesh Vaghela
http://www.indianic.com
Mahesh Vaghela
2009-01-09 12:35:39 UTC
Permalink
AusR,
Thanks a lot for your reply.

The sound quality is very much important to me as entire charm of my
application depends on those music files.

But can anyone throw some light on storage limitation of android
application?

Friends, this question will be important to us much more when market will
allow paid application. So please start a discussion on this.
Post by AusR
Hi,
Are you sure the mp3s need to be of the quality and duration they are.
For the purposes of a mobile handset application, for which the audio
playback technology is not fixed they could be re-encoded with a lower
bit-rate (or shortened) without too much loss in audible quality. this
could reduce the file size significantly.
(Just a suggestion)
Aus.
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
Hi Friends,
I want to develop an application which can play sound (.mp3) files. I am
able to play this as I wish.
But I am concern about the total file size of my application due to this
mp3
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
files. I have total 6 mp3 files and total size of them becomes more than
30mb.
This is very large when we talk for android. (For Iphone it's not a large
one!)
I have read that total allocated size for android application is just 128
or
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
256 MB only.
a)
Is this information right (Or we can use more than this)?
b) What is the maximum application size google market allows for
publishing
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
an application?
c) Is there any way by which we can put our mp3 files on some other
place?
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
Many thanks in advance.
Mahesh Vaghela
http://www.indianic.com
--
Mahesh Vaghela
http://www.indianic.com

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Stoyan Damov
2009-01-09 12:55:43 UTC
Permalink
This question has been raised quite a few times here and on the web
and not ONCE I've seen a definitive answer from a Google employee on
the question "what's the maximum .apk size which will install on an
Android device with sufficient memory". The regular answers have
always been along the "make your app smaller, the device's memory is
shared" (well you should have thought about that before releasing
Android and making it possible to launch apps from the SD card,
right?), "re-encode your .mp3s", etc. I guess the only way to be sure
is to start adding files to your project, building the .apk and
checking whether it would install (that's what I'm planning to do
anyway).

Re .mp3s, you surely can't expect the device to play a 48KHz .mp3 w/ a
320kbps bitrate so you can safely drop the quality to say 32KHz @
128kbps and the user wouldn't notice it for sure.
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
AusR,
Thanks a lot for your reply.
The sound quality is very much important to me as entire charm of my
application depends on those music files.
But can anyone throw some light on storage limitation of android
application?
Friends, this question will be important to us much more when market will
allow paid application. So please start a discussion on this.
Post by AusR
Hi,
Are you sure the mp3s need to be of the quality and duration they are.
For the purposes of a mobile handset application, for which the audio
playback technology is not fixed they could be re-encoded with a lower
bit-rate (or shortened) without too much loss in audible quality. this
could reduce the file size significantly.
(Just a suggestion)
Aus.
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
Hi Friends,
I want to develop an application which can play sound (.mp3) files. I am
able to play this as I wish.
But I am concern about the total file size of my application due to this mp3
files. I have total 6 mp3 files and total size of them becomes more than
30mb.
This is very large when we talk for android. (For Iphone it's not a large
one!)
I have read that total allocated size for android application is just 128 or
256 MB only.
a)
Is this information right (Or we can use more than this)?
b) What is the maximum application size google market allows for publishing
an application?
c) Is there any way by which we can put our mp3 files on some other
place?
Many thanks in advance.
Mahesh Vaghela
http://www.indianic.com
--
Mahesh Vaghela
http://www.indianic.com
Peli
2009-01-09 13:05:11 UTC
Permalink
Another possibility also mentioned elsewhere is to not include mp3
files in the apk, but store them on a server.

Your application downloads the mp3 files the first time it is
launched, and saves them on the SD card.

Then there is not much internal memory used, and you can still have a
lot of data for your application.

A sample application that demonstrates how to do it is available here:
http://code.google.com/p/apps-for-android/source/browse/#svn/trunk/Samples/Downloader

See also the readme: http://code.google.com/p/apps-for-android/source/browse/trunk/Samples/Downloader/README.txt

Peli
www.openintents.org
www.openintents.biz
Post by Stoyan Damov
This question has been raised quite a few times here and on the web
and not ONCE I've seen a definitive answer from a Google employee on
the question "what's the maximum .apk size which will install on an
Android device with sufficient memory". The regular answers have
always been along the "make your app smaller, the device's memory is
shared" (well you should have thought about that before releasing
Android and making it possible to launch apps from the SD card,
right?), "re-encode your .mp3s", etc. I guess the only way to be sure
is to start adding files to your project, building the .apk and
checking whether it would install (that's what I'm planning to do
anyway).
Re .mp3s, you surely can't expect the device to play a 48KHz .mp3 w/ a
128kbps and the user wouldn't notice it for sure.
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
AusR,
Thanks a lot for your reply.
The sound quality is very much important to me as entire charm of my
application depends on those music files.
But can anyone throw some light on storage limitation of android
application?
Friends, this question will be important to us much more when market will
allow paid application. So please start a discussion on this.
Post by AusR
Hi,
Are you sure the mp3s need to be of the quality and duration they are.
For the purposes of a mobile handset application, for which the audio
playback technology is not fixed they could be re-encoded with a lower
bit-rate (or shortened) without too much loss in audible quality. this
could reduce the file size significantly.
(Just a suggestion)
Aus.
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
Hi Friends,
I want to develop an application which can play sound (.mp3) files. I am
able to play this as I wish.
But I am concern about the total file size of my application due to this mp3
files. I have total 6 mp3 files and total size of them becomes more than
30mb.
This is very large when we talk for android. (For Iphone it's not a large
one!)
I have read that total allocated size for android application is just 128 or
256 MB only.
a)
Is this information right (Or we can use more than this)?
b) What is the maximum application size google market allows for publishing
an application?
c) Is there any way by which we can put our mp3 files on some other
place?
Many thanks in advance.
Mahesh Vaghela
http://www.indianic.com
--
Mahesh Vaghela
http://www.indianic.com
madcoder
2009-01-09 15:08:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stoyan Damov
Re .mp3s, you surely can't expect the device to play a 48KHz .mp3 w/ a
128kbps and the user wouldn't notice it for sure.
What is the audio limitations of the android platform/G1? How do you
know that 32KHz/128kbps is the best quality that can be heard?

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I would like to know the best audio
quality from android played through a good set of ear buds or
headphones. File size is critical as well, so this is very important
information to get correct.

Thanks
Stoyan Damov
2009-01-09 15:21:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by madcoder
Post by Stoyan Damov
Re .mp3s, you surely can't expect the device to play a 48KHz .mp3 w/ a
128kbps and the user wouldn't notice it for sure.
What is the audio limitations of the android platform/G1? How do you
know that 32KHz/128kbps is the best quality that can be heard?
These numbers can be found if you google around for best/sufficient
bitrate for phones.
I can assure you that on my G1 I can barely make any difference (w/o
the headset) between an insane quality (48KHz/320 kbps) mp3 and a
22Khz/96kbps one.
Post by madcoder
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I would like to know the best audio
quality from android played through a good set of ear buds or
headphones. File size is critical as well, so this is very important
information to get correct.
Thanks
Dianne Hackborn
2009-01-09 21:09:37 UTC
Permalink
Well there isn't a definitive answer. We've said that the total available
space on internal storage is about 70MB. You can judge from that how likely
a user is to keep your app based on its size.

Fwiw, based on 70MB total available, you will probably find very very few
people keeping a 30MB app.
Post by Stoyan Damov
This question has been raised quite a few times here and on the web
and not ONCE I've seen a definitive answer from a Google employee on
the question "what's the maximum .apk size which will install on an
Android device with sufficient memory". The regular answers have
always been along the "make your app smaller, the device's memory is
shared" (well you should have thought about that before releasing
Android and making it possible to launch apps from the SD card,
right?), "re-encode your .mp3s", etc. I guess the only way to be sure
is to start adding files to your project, building the .apk and
checking whether it would install (that's what I'm planning to do
anyway).
Re .mp3s, you surely can't expect the device to play a 48KHz .mp3 w/ a
128kbps and the user wouldn't notice it for sure.
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
AusR,
Thanks a lot for your reply.
The sound quality is very much important to me as entire charm of my
application depends on those music files.
But can anyone throw some light on storage limitation of android
application?
Friends, this question will be important to us much more when market will
allow paid application. So please start a discussion on this.
Post by AusR
Hi,
Are you sure the mp3s need to be of the quality and duration they are.
For the purposes of a mobile handset application, for which the audio
playback technology is not fixed they could be re-encoded with a lower
bit-rate (or shortened) without too much loss in audible quality. this
could reduce the file size significantly.
(Just a suggestion)
Aus.
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
Hi Friends,
I want to develop an application which can play sound (.mp3) files. I
am
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
Post by AusR
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
able to play this as I wish.
But I am concern about the total file size of my application due to
this
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
Post by AusR
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
mp3
files. I have total 6 mp3 files and total size of them becomes more
than
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
Post by AusR
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
30mb.
This is very large when we talk for android. (For Iphone it's not a large
one!)
I have read that total allocated size for android application is just 128 or
256 MB only.
a)
Is this information right (Or we can use more than this)?
b) What is the maximum application size google market allows for publishing
an application?
c) Is there any way by which we can put our mp3 files on some other
place?
Many thanks in advance.
Mahesh Vaghela
http://www.indianic.com
--
Mahesh Vaghela
http://www.indianic.com
--
Dianne Hackborn
Android framework engineer
***@android.com

Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to
provide private support. All such questions should be posted on public
forums, where I and others can see and answer them.

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Mahesh Vaghela
2009-01-10 05:35:25 UTC
Permalink
Hi Friends,
Thank you very much for starting this discussion.

Based on your suggestion I am going to first reduce the file size by
changing it to 32KHz @
128kbps. But I dont think this will do as any mp3 files are already a
reduced size file.

One of my current mp3 file is of size 13.9mb developed at 44Khz sample rate
and 160kbps Bit Rate.

If I try to reduce this further I dont think it will end up to less than 10
to 11mb.

I really like Peli's idea of "downloads the mp3 files the first time it is
launched, and saves them on the SD card"

But this idea will need hosting of a web server from where user can
download the mp3 files on first run.

Instead of this all, the best way I feel is when a user downloads his apk
file from Android Market all the code should go in application folder and
all mp3 should be moved to sd card.
*
Friends, is there any way by which we can directly put our mp3 files on sd
card, just at the time of installation?*

This is possible with windows mobile but I dont know how to do this with
android.
Post by Dianne Hackborn
Well there isn't a definitive answer. We've said that the total available
space on internal storage is about 70MB. You can judge from that how likely
a user is to keep your app based on its size.
Fwiw, based on 70MB total available, you will probably find very very few
people keeping a 30MB app.
Post by Stoyan Damov
This question has been raised quite a few times here and on the web
and not ONCE I've seen a definitive answer from a Google employee on
the question "what's the maximum .apk size which will install on an
Android device with sufficient memory". The regular answers have
always been along the "make your app smaller, the device's memory is
shared" (well you should have thought about that before releasing
Android and making it possible to launch apps from the SD card,
right?), "re-encode your .mp3s", etc. I guess the only way to be sure
is to start adding files to your project, building the .apk and
checking whether it would install (that's what I'm planning to do
anyway).
Re .mp3s, you surely can't expect the device to play a 48KHz .mp3 w/ a
128kbps and the user wouldn't notice it for sure.
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
AusR,
Thanks a lot for your reply.
The sound quality is very much important to me as entire charm of my
application depends on those music files.
But can anyone throw some light on storage limitation of android
application?
Friends, this question will be important to us much more when market
will
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
allow paid application. So please start a discussion on this.
Post by AusR
Hi,
Are you sure the mp3s need to be of the quality and duration they are.
For the purposes of a mobile handset application, for which the audio
playback technology is not fixed they could be re-encoded with a lower
bit-rate (or shortened) without too much loss in audible quality. this
could reduce the file size significantly.
(Just a suggestion)
Aus.
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
Hi Friends,
I want to develop an application which can play sound (.mp3) files. I
am
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
Post by AusR
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
able to play this as I wish.
But I am concern about the total file size of my application due to
this
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
Post by AusR
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
mp3
files. I have total 6 mp3 files and total size of them becomes more
than
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
Post by AusR
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
30mb.
This is very large when we talk for android. (For Iphone it's not a large
one!)
I have read that total allocated size for android application is just 128 or
256 MB only.
a)
Is this information right (Or we can use more than this)?
b) What is the maximum application size google market allows for publishing
an application?
c) Is there any way by which we can put our mp3 files on some other
place?
Many thanks in advance.
Mahesh Vaghela
http://www.indianic.com
--
Mahesh Vaghela
http://www.indianic.com
--
Dianne Hackborn
Android framework engineer
Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to
provide private support. All such questions should be posted on public
forums, where I and others can see and answer them.
Mahesh Vaghela
http://www.indianic.com

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Mahesh Vaghela
2009-01-10 05:49:08 UTC
Permalink
Dianne,

Can you please comment on why there is very limited (70mb) space available
for developers.

If this is the limitation, how can a developer think for providing music and
video?

This is not question of only single application. This is a question about
deciding and implementing an entire idea or concept based on total file
size.

We can find many application on Iphone having more than 70mb file size. and
that is the independence which encourage a sponsor for allocate funds on
some very good Idea.

I know at google you all must have think on this. and if there is way by
which developer can directly put their audio and video file on sd card at
the time of application download than its enough for we all.
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
Hi Friends,
Thank you very much for starting this discussion.
Based on your suggestion I am going to first reduce the file size by
128kbps. But I dont think this will do as any mp3 files are already a
reduced size file.
One of my current mp3 file is of size 13.9mb developed at 44Khz sample rate
and 160kbps Bit Rate.
If I try to reduce this further I dont think it will end up to less than 10
to 11mb.
I really like Peli's idea of "downloads the mp3 files the first time it is
launched, and saves them on the SD card"
But this idea will need hosting of a web server from where user can
download the mp3 files on first run.
Instead of this all, the best way I feel is when a user downloads his apk
file from Android Market all the code should go in application folder and
all mp3 should be moved to sd card.
*
Friends, is there any way by which we can directly put our mp3 files on sd
card, just at the time of installation?*
This is possible with windows mobile but I dont know how to do this with
android.
Post by Dianne Hackborn
Well there isn't a definitive answer. We've said that the total available
space on internal storage is about 70MB. You can judge from that how likely
a user is to keep your app based on its size.
Fwiw, based on 70MB total available, you will probably find very very few
people keeping a 30MB app.
Post by Stoyan Damov
This question has been raised quite a few times here and on the web
and not ONCE I've seen a definitive answer from a Google employee on
the question "what's the maximum .apk size which will install on an
Android device with sufficient memory". The regular answers have
always been along the "make your app smaller, the device's memory is
shared" (well you should have thought about that before releasing
Android and making it possible to launch apps from the SD card,
right?), "re-encode your .mp3s", etc. I guess the only way to be sure
is to start adding files to your project, building the .apk and
checking whether it would install (that's what I'm planning to do
anyway).
Re .mp3s, you surely can't expect the device to play a 48KHz .mp3 w/ a
128kbps and the user wouldn't notice it for sure.
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
AusR,
Thanks a lot for your reply.
The sound quality is very much important to me as entire charm of my
application depends on those music files.
But can anyone throw some light on storage limitation of android
application?
Friends, this question will be important to us much more when market
will
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
allow paid application. So please start a discussion on this.
Post by AusR
Hi,
Are you sure the mp3s need to be of the quality and duration they are.
For the purposes of a mobile handset application, for which the audio
playback technology is not fixed they could be re-encoded with a lower
bit-rate (or shortened) without too much loss in audible quality. this
could reduce the file size significantly.
(Just a suggestion)
Aus.
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
Hi Friends,
I want to develop an application which can play sound (.mp3) files.
I am
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
Post by AusR
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
able to play this as I wish.
But I am concern about the total file size of my application due to
this
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
Post by AusR
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
mp3
files. I have total 6 mp3 files and total size of them becomes more
than
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
Post by AusR
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
30mb.
This is very large when we talk for android. (For Iphone it's not a large
one!)
I have read that total allocated size for android application is
just
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
Post by AusR
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
128 or
256 MB only.
a)
Is this information right (Or we can use more than this)?
b) What is the maximum application size google market allows for publishing
an application?
c) Is there any way by which we can put our mp3 files on some other
place?
Many thanks in advance.
Mahesh Vaghela
http://www.indianic.com
--
Mahesh Vaghela
http://www.indianic.com
--
Dianne Hackborn
Android framework engineer
Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to
provide private support. All such questions should be posted on public
forums, where I and others can see and answer them.
Mahesh Vaghela
http://www.indianic.com
--
Mahesh Vaghela

http://www.indianic.com

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Dianne Hackborn
2009-01-11 02:32:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
Can you please comment on why there is very limited (70mb) space available
for developers.
Because that is how much space remains on the G1's internal flash after
taking out the space needed for the operating system and such.
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
If this is the limitation, how can a developer think for providing music
and video?
The best solution right now is I think to download your large data after
installing.

I know at google you all must have think on this. and if there is way by
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
which developer can directly put their audio and video file on sd card at
the time of application download than its enough for we all.
Sorry, this isn't possible at this point.
--
Dianne Hackborn
Android framework engineer
***@android.com

Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to
provide private support. All such questions should be posted on public
forums, where I and others can see and answer them.

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
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Mahesh Vaghela
2009-01-12 11:20:24 UTC
Permalink
Hi Dianne,

Thanks for you clarification.

70 mb limitation is really disappointing to many developers. Specially who
have already worked on Iphone.

I am trying to get a web server now as I have no other choice!

Thank you all for the info given so far!
Post by Dianne Hackborn
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
Can you please comment on why there is very limited (70mb) space available
for developers.
Because that is how much space remains on the G1's internal flash after
taking out the space needed for the operating system and such.
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
If this is the limitation, how can a developer think for providing music
and video?
The best solution right now is I think to download your large data after
installing.
I know at google you all must have think on this. and if there is way by
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
which developer can directly put their audio and video file on sd card at
the time of application download than its enough for we all.
Sorry, this isn't possible at this point.
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Dianne Hackborn
2009-01-11 02:30:27 UTC
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*Friends, is there any way by which we can directly put our mp3 files on
sd card, just at the time of installation?*
Sorry, not at this point.
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Mark Murphy
2009-01-09 13:02:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mahesh Vaghela
But I am concern about the total file size of my application due to this
mp3 files. I have total 6 mp3 files and total size of them becomes more
than 30mb.
Don't bundle the MP3 files in your APK. Instead, have your application
download the MP3 files to /sdcard when first run.
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